Wednesday, March 30, 2016 Sheriff Glenn Palmer and the "Scouring of the Shire" The "little folk" rise up against Saruman's Ruffians. Edit: sorry guys what i meant to say was show bad gib gold plz. GRRM's greatest complaint and his greatest praise of LotR are basically two sides of the same coin. We seem to be heading rowars the battle(s) involving the golden company. “The Scouring of the Shire” is perhaps the most distinct chapter of The Lord of the Rings. It feels like a wild west story, not epic high fantasy. Sam, Merry and Pippin leave the shire as frightened children, sneaking out. At this point, this should not surprise us at all. Ongoing || (None) Resources for new readers, .. Fighting Cersei? [–]tschandler71 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children), [–]cass314Live Tree or Die 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago (0 children). The perilous state of the Shire is a nod to Gandalf's claim from the beginning of the FotR that evil can't be stamped out, that again and again it'll rear it's dark head(s), Hydra-like, in some new form, to continue its execution of the "Long Defeat". The theme of small, unimportant people being picked for big things isn't just found in Tolkien's work, it is also very common in Christianity, which is why it finds its way into Tolkien's works. Don't use spoilers, quotes, or rhetorical questions as weapons. It was small and personal. I personally love both versions of Saruman’s death, book and film. We've seen the army of the dead, we've seen zombie giants and an ice dragon. It's sort of like Odysseus's return to Ithaca only to have to prove himself to his own wife, who doesn't recognize him. For the Hobbits to have returned to a green and unchanged Shire would have undermined one of the central sadnesses of the story, that of the far-reaching and irreversible consequences of evil. And, like the hobbits experienced, the fight will never end. It's been the theme all along. and join one of thousands of communities. It is a very important part showcasing just how far the hobbits have grown. (Out of universe) Tolkien's love for areas of the Midlands that the Shire was based on is well-known. Same idea, right? Though he left quite a big mess to clean up, when viewed in the context not as just a fantasy novel but a view into the world Tolkien crafted, The Scouring makes a bit more sense dramatically as well as thematically. Just as Rohan, Gondor, and remaining Elves were too proud to communicate and band together initially, just as most of the 5 kings shunned alliances. So having the Others defeated in episode three and then having the rest of teh finbal season be about the struggle for power between Dany and Cersei, Dany and Sansa or Dany and Jon just feel wrong. I guess, we'll have to see how it will play out in the show, but with the time and the set up we have, i feel lik we are heading for more conflicts. Without the Scouring of the Shire, this theme is weakened, but with it, it comes to life. © 2021 reddit inc. All rights reserved. Reason. It's the that Frodo was chosen by Illuvatar to be the ringbearer. The epic quite suddenly becomes local; the mythic becomes petty. Our little hobbit's Shire was destroyed while he was still living there at the pretty much beginning of his story. You can't tell if a person is good or not by what side they are on, and you can't defeat evil by winning a physical fight or accomplishing a physical task. Jon didn't arguably break his vows and try to fight a war with Ramsay; he was shanked for not being racist enough. The truth is probably murkily somewhere in between, but this chapter is clearly colored by the common experience of British soldiers during the Great War, returning home from the mainland to find that their home has changed in their absence and been touched by war in ways they didn't expect couldn't have known about. Dany didn't come tantalizingly close to succeeding at peace only for Drogon to show up like a manifestation of her id and remind her that dragons plant no trees; she tried her best and then she was betrayed and Drogon showed up to save her. People like to pan books four and five, but thematically they have so much heart. So what happened and how did he actually die? The big battle of good vs. evil is fought against Melkor at the end of the First Age; the Second and Third Ages are really just cleaning up his mess. I think it's a fantastic and very necessary part of the book for a few reasons: (Characters) It shows us how the hobbits have grown and changed and come into their own as a result of their adventures. Scouring of the Shire: lt;p|>"|The Scouring of the Shire|" is a chapter from the |epic fantasy| |novel| ||The Return of ... World Heritage Encyclopedia, the aggregation of the largest online encyclopedias available, and the most definitive collection ever assembled. But with 3 long episodes to go and a bunch of conflicts set up, i very much doubt that we'll spend the rest of the show rebuilding Westeros as a better place. Many see “The Scouring Of The Shire” as Tolkien’s commentary on the rise of industry in previously agricultural areas of England. if the show follows LOTR's scouring, the final confrontation will be light on magic and won't be much of a battle at all. Report "Middle-earth - Scouring of the Shire" Please fill this form, we will try to respond as soon as possible. [–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago* (0 children). It's not about there being another war, it's about the aftermath of war. The purpose of this deck is twofold: First, I want to give a massive round of applause to Boromore on the FFG Forum. At this point, this should not surprise us at all. Also, it's completely unrealistic to think that Saruman would know of the Shire and not do something troublesome up that way. I agree about the Scouring of the Shire. /r/aSongOfMemesAndRage is best for these. Iron coins of the Shire struck during a time of great turmoil. But the thing is, small, unimportant people aren't just relevant on the world stage of saving literally everybody. Type it out or search for it on A Search of Ice and Fire. I realize I sound like an asshole now. While they were unconsidered during the Wo5K, they received lots of exposure through Bran, Sam, and Jon chapters/scenes. The scouring of the Shire works in contrast to the rest of Lord of the Rings, because the rest of the story is mostly concerned with the war against Sauron. My mother first read LotR to me when I was 7 and the Scouring of the Shire has always been one of my favorite chapters. Jaime's never happened--we got pointless fighting in Dorne instead. [–]BaelBard🏆 Best of 2019: Best New Theory[S] 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (0 children). I propose that it be merged here, where it can be read in context.--Jack Upland 09:07, 20 December 2019 (UTC). But I think I like the book a tiny bit better. When they discovered that the evil they had fought in Mordor had come home to roost, they roused the Shire and were able to kill or drive off the evil-doers that infested it. Arya's journey came the closest, but even that was cut down substantially. [Edit: For grammar and missing antecedent in the second paragraph], I think the parallels to the odyssey and other ancient texts are spot on. We already saw the "divine powers" etc. It's Arya and Brienne's trips through the Riverlands to show us the wages of war, and then Jaime's, trying to put together some kind of peace. Meta topics are not allowed. I really don't understand what you mean by that. You have to fight for what should be rightfully yours and as you fight you realize that things can never really be the same again. There may be some wish fulfillment on behalf of Tolkien's generation here; A wish that they could have come home with the power and connections to simply confront the changes and set things right. Saruman was doing its work all the time, even when he thought he was working for himself. The way it is won is by every person, no matter how small or insignificant, being courageous and confronting evil where they find it. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 5760 on r2-app-059dca30e9644c7df at 2021-02-16 10:44:25.979983+00:00 running 6289523 country code: US. . His complaint is how does governing in peacetime happen? With the Ice of A Song of Ice and Fire gone, what is the point of all this? Fan Art should be posted in our weekly Friday Fan Art threads. Evil will be present everywhere you go, and the fight against evil will never be done. Saruman's behavior in this chapter accurately fills out his identification with the "fallen angel" archetype and completes his personal inversion of Gandalf's path. I love the scouring of the shire, it's an incredible chapter. Jack Upland: Many thanks.It may help if you know that I am accustomed to working through GANs with reviewers, incorporating their comments promptly so as to improve the article, so I would be grateful if you would avoid rushing to judgement. our characters shouldn't rush to create more corpses right after that. I was posting about this here: I was saying that its a good story. The chapter, regardless of how poorly it seems to fit the narrative flow, accomplishes several things at once: It allows the Hobbits to save their own world without the help of Gandalf or Aragorn or any of the other members of the fellowship. No Piracy. Hobbits are men! I just finished reading the series for the first time and this particular chapter is the only thing that really seems out of place to me. We all thought that it was connected to the Others - the first and the last scene of season one, Ice and Fire. Its one of the last chapters in the Lord of the Rings. This is the point of the Scouring of the Shire: it describes more fully what Evil is and how it is fought. There are no orcs in our world, and there are very rarely dark lords. Saruman faces the Hobbits in this reading from the chapter "The Scouring of the Shire" from The Return of the King. ASOIAF/Game of Thrones is a completely different series than LOTR, both in term of themes and structure. with e3, as per LOTR. It goes back to what Gildor said early on in FotR: But it is not your own Shire,’ said Gildor. [Spoilers Extended] GRRM has the deconstructed and Subverted version of the Farmboy Heir trope in Jon. It's not a fleet and the Golden Company and the Lannister army. Sorry. After all, hobbits are men too and their age is come. I discussed something similar here. So pretty much I just loved it for how different it was and how I was not expecting it. It's a pathetic and diminished Saruman. No "PM Me."). The tragedy of LOTR is that while our heroes saved the world, they could not save their home. I have always seen it as the true climax and finally brings all the themes into play. LORT - while our characters are busy fighting the big evil, the war gets to their homeland. As someone who read the books AFTER watching the films, it totally blind sided me when I first read it. The Shire as Frodo and the others found it was not a kind of thin allegory for communism. The Scouring of the Shire was an event that changed the Hobbits of Middle-earth forever. [–]Mithras_StonebornHim of Manly Feces 14 points15 points16 points 1 year ago* (0 children). Download Middle-earth - Scouring of the Shire Comments. That's why GRRM paints the five kings as dwarves who eat the woman that is Westeros for example. I believe Tolkien wanted this text to be as authentically ancient as possible and including these odd counter - climaxes as you called it is a great way to do that. Scouring is the cleanup, not the infestation. The Third Age gives way to the Fourth. When they demanded entrance, a frightened gatekeeper informed them that he was under orders from the Chief at Bag End to let no one enter between sundown and sunrise. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. [Spoilers extended] Which characters are people putting too much thought into? This is a small article that is not likely to grow. The Scouring of the Shire . However, in the extended version of King's Return, it mentioned what happened in the place before and after the scouring occurred. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the tolkienfans community. It's kind of cool to see them coming back on ponies, with swords and armor and getting hassled only to be like "Yeah, no, we didn't fight against Sauron to put up with this crap" and then immediately raise a rebellion and kick Saruman's ass. It was important to show hobbits that ignorance of the outside world was not wise. If not one of the longest. They could (and were prepared to) fight. All of our hobbit heroes finally have to face their biggest fears, and this time their is no big strong men to help them. Sharkley in LOTR wasn't really a big villian. On first read, the "scouring of the shire" seemed an afterthought. I think it's what makes ROTK so great. Releases Announcements . Tolkien was right to include the Scouring of the Shire because from page one it had to come back to the Shire, there was no escaping it if Tolkien’s larger point was to be made. It is known that Tolkien was somewhat disgusted with how factories had “ruined” his previously idyllic country home. The change of focus from the Others storyline has not been earned because the show never did justice to the Others. Right down to the trees he had grown up playing beneath that were cut down to construct factories which polluted his childhood home. It's the burning of Winterfell. And that evil isn't some far off big bad boss, but seeps in to the smallest details and needs to be guarded against everywhere, big and small. moved from Talk:The Return of the King so that proposal and responses are together. The surprise is that Cersei is our final villain of the story. So you have a battle where some soldiers from another continent get slaughtered, and we lose some wildlings (which no one in the South cares about) and oh, some Northern soldiers. iirc, the hobbits roll up in Hobbiton and kill a couple orcs before Saruman reveals himself and gets stabbed. I loved that Frodo and Sam had to finish their own ‘personal’ story arc as well as the story arc for all of middle earth. Press J to jump to the feed. There's been endless discussion and debate about to just what extent WW1 (in which Tolkien served) and WW2 (which was taking place while he was writing LotR and which he felt was being mismanaged by the British government/military) colored and effected Tolkien's writing. The Shire was subjugated as … There is a lot of foreshadowing in it that's not immediately obvious on a first read. We host monthly discussion hubs after the turn of each month for talking about the subreddit. It's Jon and Dany grappling with responsibility and trying to hold together a peace and arguably choosing to fail because of how much of an aggravating letdown it was. It was important to show hobbits that ignorance of the outside world was not wise. Is she the ultimate villian, so powerful that divine powers resurrected people and dragons to fight her? Here is why it works for Tolkien but not Game of Thrones/ASOIAF: The scouring of the Shire works in contrast to the rest of Lord of the Rings, because the rest of the story is mostly concerned with the war against Sauron. It was simply a look at how totalitarianism sneaks up on a society. Fellowship Club Lord of the Rings Dec/Jan 2021 Next Mithril Releases. The Scouring of the Shire is the final chapter of the trilogy. I've often gone back and re-read just that chapter. A pretty big change from the films was Saruman's death as they had left out an entire chapter. It also ties up the Saruman arc. It's not an anticlimax so much as a counter-climax, a second seemingly low-stakes climax after the high-stakes battle is already fought and won. It was always my favorite chapter. There is no great evil. If the living are down to a tiny group of survivors, then the Others' impact on the world is still huge. Yeah, but due to different structure, the scouring can't work in ASOIAF. I would recommend reading through a second time. Which kinda renders the whole Others plotline meaningless, doesn't it? It's not a "twist." Mithril Events. And the same with those Saruman tricked, like Lotho.". This has come up before, so I'll just post what I've said before. What about the rest of the orcs? RotK had 1.5 battles w Sauron's forces, compared with 1.5 proper fights with NK (Hardhome being the 0.5). Sam sees the Scouring in the Mirror of Galadriel. It's the reason that Gandalf advocates for Merry and Pippin in the Fellowship over Elrond's suggestion of two elfs. It's making Cersei the new one. For me, the Scouring of the Shire is about refocusing the story on the four Hobbits and how they’ve changed (“leveled up”) during their experiences. The Shire is a region of J. R. R. Tolkien's fictional Middle-earth, described in The Lord of the Rings and other works. Email. That was it. I think people are missing the point of the Scouring of the Shire. from Gandalf, Gildor, Farmer Maggot, Tom Bombadil, Aragorn, Elrond, etc.) There was quite some buildup to the chapter: the hobbits are usually babbling about the Shire or hobbit-stuff during the whole adventure. Trees had been cut down and replaced with factories that polluted the area. In the exclusive scene of it, Saruman was interrogated at Isengard when the return of the Helm's Deep people. I'm not sure where to begin since I think lots of your analysis downplays the similarities in order to magnify the differences. “Just one of its works. If you think that this is George’s ‘Scouring of the Shire’ you are completely misled and do not know what the scouring of the shire actually is. If your comment goes beyond a given thread's spoiler scope, cover the spoilers with the spoiler code: Topics with spoilers in titles will be removed. The Scouring of the Shire is the eighth chapter of the second book of The Return of the King, recounting all the events of the Scouring of the Shire.. It is also somewhat tragic in that they saved the world only to return home to find it in peril. In an ideal scenario, Saruman wouldn't have been power hungry, and assisted the forces of good (same as Cersei and the living in GoT). I've seen quite a few people explaining the early defeat of the White Walkers by compraing it to Tolkien's scouring of the shire. The design, metal, and denomination have all changed compared to the standard Shire currency before Shire Year 1419. This subreddit is a space for the Tolkien nerds of reddit to debate and discuss the whole Tolkien mythos. It is not a once in a thousand years job for princes and kings and powerful people, but an everyday, unending, uncelebrated, and thankless job for every person. [–]DarthCharizard 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (1 child). He actually experienced exactly this. No silly posts, external funny links, memes, as new topics. [–]BaelBard🏆 Best of 2019: Best New Theory[S] 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago (0 children), [–]Fat_WaldaA Fish Called Walda 44 points45 points46 points 1 year ago (2 children). AGOT, ACOK, ASOS, AFFC, ADWD: All book information through the end of that novel. And that's been one of the most fundamental ideas in this series the whole time. The difference is they already know they're in for a poor welcome. It is a bittersweet look at life after a great war and the realisation that the wheel keeps turning, even when you have just won the war to end all wars. back to the way they were before. Gold Status (GSF) Fellowship Club public section. Some of it didn't make complete sense because the way we got there was very different to how the books will get there, but that was GRRM's ending for sure. I mean, apart from a portion of the North, no one in the Realm would ever believe in the Army of the Dead in the first place because it was destroyed before they can do some continent-wide damage. For someone like Tolkien who was in the trenches in WWI, I can imagine this being one of his biggest fears which makes this chapter one of the most personal. For the Shire to have escaped the War unscathed would have belittled the Hobbits' sacrifice of it in the first place (their sacrifice of it for themselves, I mean). The Shire had changed dramatically for the worse when Frodo, Sam, and their companions returned from Mordor. Its placement is strange because it interrupts the "falling action" of the dramatic structure following the destruction of the Ring. No Memes, Silly Content, FanArt Topics, (Spoilers Extended)The scouring of the shire does not apply. It was already scoured right from the beginning. What could be more important than the defense of home? Why did lord of light bring Jon Snow back? The War for the Dawn is a side quest and the fight for the throne is the real deal. Fighting Cersei? Frodo guessed that the Chief must be … And do we really want that? But thoroughly agreed -- it's the true climax for the Hobbits. [–]DarthCharizard 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children). Although given the preview, maybe i'm just being optimistic. And his favorite part is that these things truly matter--the war has touched everything, even the Shire, and peace isn't as simple as chucking a ring into a volcano. In the context of the Legendarium, of course, it's just another tale in the ongoing saga of Middle Earth. Don't attack other posters, be rude, condescending, or insulting. The corruption of certain Hobbits serves as an important counterpoint to the message of the unimaginable potential for good inherent in even the "smallest" of folk, that in the same way they also harbor an equal potential for evil (which is obviously necessary for the former truth to carry any meaning or beauty). There was never going to be a Targaryen restoration, ASOIAF has always been about the Starks (Spoilers Main), Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I don't really care about the Targaryan's, or their history... (SPOILERS EXTENDED), (Spoilers Extended) Just realized: the name of Xaro's ship, Vermillion Kiss, is a death threat, Season 6 vs The Winds of Winter (Spoilers Extended). That's not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we'd prefer not to have image macros or movie gifs filling up this forum. She has an army and a plan to whipe out the surviviors. Because that's what the war does for the country. If you omit this chapter, they still have relevance in the story, but are largely outshone by the heroes such as … [] SummarThe Hobbits found the bridge at Brandywine closed with a large spiked gate. Submit Close. The Shire gets scoured. They also find pipe-weed at Isengard. breaking down characters for fun. “Yes, this is Mordor,” said Frodo. I could go on, but I think the first point is the most important. It is about what happens to the literal small folk when the high lords play their game of thrones. The War for the Dawn should mean something - our characters shouldn't rush to create more corpses right after that. The end of the Lord of the Rings is very different in the novel than in the movie trilogy.

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